[Avodah] Must we agree with the Torah?

[Daniel M. Israel]

On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:43 AM, T613K at aol.com wrote:
> If your issue is [1] then you are just wrong. Hashem tells us over
> and over in the Torah that He loves us more. It also says in Pirkei Avos
> that Hashem loves us more. "Ratzah Hakodosh Baruch Hu LEZAKOS ES YISRAEL
> lefichach hirbah lahem Torah umitzvos." Also, "Hu (R' Akiva) haya omer,
> Chavivin Yisrael shenikra'u vanim laMakom....shene'emar 'Banim atem
> laShem Elokeichem.'" (Although I must point out that Hashem loves all of
> mankind, as it also says in Pirkei Avos "chaviv Adam shenivra beTzelem.")

But none of this is loshon of "loves us more."

HaShem has a very different kind of relationship with us than with the
rest of the world. OTOH, the idea that HaShem loves anything is an
anthropomorphism. In the absence of a clear citation in Tanach where
the phrase "loves us more" occurs specifically, I'm not sure that we
have the right to characterize the relationship that way.

> If your issue is [2] then the answer is, there is no reason to hate
> us (and btw anti-Semites need no excuse, they hate us for breathing,
> for occupying space on Planet Earth). Anyone who wants to can join
> the Jewish people, if he is willing to accept all the extra mitzvos he
> will have to keep and if he is willing to share our fate, which may c'v
> include wars, terror attacks, pogroms, expulsions, massacres, fulminating
> New York Times editorials and UN anti-Israel votes -- which have been
> aptly characterized as "Seventy wolves voting on the fate of one sheep."

They also have to accept anti-Semitism from right wing sources. Of which
there is no shortage.

Sorry, not really relevant to my point, but I do get frustrated with
ongoing gratuitous swipes at NYT & Co., which are IMNSHO not contributing
to the discussion.


On Aug 12, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Zev Sero <zev at sero.name> wrote:
> The simplest and most important step is not to avoid saying it among
> ourselves.
> The trouble begins when we start telling ourselves and our children the lies
> that we have to tell those outside, and they -- not knowing any better - come
> to believe them.

1. If we are not careful about when and how we say certain things among
ourselves, we will end up being careless about saying them outside.

2. More importantly, we don't tell lies, inside or outside. Torah is
toras emes. There may be things we phrase delicately or don't volunteer,
but I don't agree that we should lie about anything Torah says, except
perhaps in the rare circumstance where there is a real sekanos nefashos.
And even there, that may be a real case of kiddish HaShem.

--
Daniel M. Israel
dmi1 at cornell.edu