[Avodah] Abortion isn't Murder

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 04:56:20PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
> And you know this how? The pasuk (according to RY, whose view is the
> halacha) explicitly calls the foetus "ha'adam".

So a bas noach's fetus is ha'adam in the same sense that she herself is
not? And she is called "ba'adam", with a patach beis. This is a derashah;
peshat doesn't work. (The trop doesn't fit either.)

In any case, you are making a deduction from the ubar having "dam ha'adam"
to its being a person that isn't being made by the Zohar, Tosafos,
the Ran, or acharonim who consider the issur of a Jew killing the very
same velad something other than retzichah. To the extent of believing
that's why the Rambam allows abortion in a risk to the mother for which
he wouldn't allow infanticide.

You don't touch RnCL's argument that it doesn't look like we hold like
R' Yishmael with an assertion. Mena hani mili? She says the Achiezer
understands Tosafos and the Ran differently. So how do you understand
the Achiezer?

For that matter, how do you understand R' Yishmael in light of the fact
that with one exception, the acharonim we discussed allow certain kulos
in abortion by a Jew that wouldn't hold if it were shefichas dam because
they give other bases for the issur. Do you believe that the ubar has
dam ha'adam or not depending on who the shofeich is, like Mitzri water
during makas dam?

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Friendship is like stone. A stone has no value,
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