[Avodah] timeline??

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:56:51PM -0800, Harvey Benton wrote:
: didn't ezra hasofer change the letters?? (and there fore the tagim 
: were then added??) how then could R. Akiva learn the halachot
: from the tagim (since he came earlier????) or was this a different
: Akiva??

See my blog post <http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2011/07/holy-script-speech.shtml>.

Summary (see the blog if this is too terse):

Megillah 3a, Shabbos 104a: R' Chisda says the [final] mem and the samech
of the luchos stood by miracle. Implying kesav Ashuris was used for the
luchos, leaving middles that are unattached but floating in place.

Menachos 29b: R' Aqiva darshening tagin -- also implies Ashuris was the
original.

Halakhah requiring qutzo shel yu -- also implies Ashuris.

These latter two aren't muchrakh, as Anshei Keneses haGedolah could have
been given Ashuris later along with R' Aqiva's derashos and a divrei
Soferim requiring its use. After all, they were both posqim AND neviim.

Y-mi Megillah 1:9: R' Levi, quoting Mar Zutra and R' Yosi says that it
was ayin and tes of the luchos that requires a miracle. Implying they
were carved in kesav Ivri.

Sanhedrin 21a-22b is the core inyan.

Mar Zutra (consistent to what he says in the Y-mi) says that the Torah
was given in kesavi Ivri and lashon haQodesh and then was restored in the
days of Ezra in Aramaic and Ashuri. We chose lashon haqodesh and Ashuris.

R' Chisda (who says mem & samech) explains Mar Zutrah.

Amoraim in Sanhedrin:
1- R' Yosi: Ashuris is from Ezra's day, and learned from Ashur. Medrash
   on Yonah also says that Ashur was rewarded with the holy script. But
   archeology shows they used Cuneiform, not Ashuris.

2- Rebbe: the Torah was given in Ashuris, but Ashuris was lost.
   AKhG restored it.

3- Majority opinion (and last -- many rishonim presume the masqanah): 
   The Torah and divrei qodesh always used Ashuris. AKhG popularized it
   for common use.

Radvaz (Y-mi ad loc) says there is no machloqes between the two shasin.
The first luchos were in Ashuris, we lost the right to use it after the
eigel, and the 2nd luchos were in Ivri. This basically fits both Rebbe
and the last opinion. And it would explain why R' Chisda (of mem vesamech)
explains Mar Zutra's statement that the Torah was first given to Yisrael
in kesav Ivri.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Nothing so soothes our vanity as a display of
micha at aishdas.org        greater vanity in others; it makes us vain,
http://www.aishdas.org   in fact, of our modesty.
Fax: (270) 514-1507              -Louis Kronenberger, writer (1904-1980)