[Avodah] Halachic Policy Guidelines of the Kashrus Authority of Australia

[Chana Luntz]

> : RMB wrote:
> : > The product isn't inspected, the ingredient isn't listed. So how do we
> : > know it's there? I thought the whole point of this line of reasoning
is that
> : > we don't have to inspect, we don't have to know, since we also have
> bitul.

I replied:

> : Nobody approves a product without asking the manufacturer for a full
> list of the ingredients...

And RMB further replied:

> I'm not sure what to say, since I already posted to the list a quote
> from
> a Kosher Authority - Australia web page which says that they do. See
> <http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol28/v28n247.shtml#13>, or the original
> page
> <http://www.ka.org.au/index.php/Halachic_Policy/The_Kashrut_Authority_a
> nd_Kashrut_in_Australia.html>
> the part that reads
> > a. If there is a definitely non-kosher ingredient then the product
> will
> > not be listed regardless of the ability to nullify....

So they are asking for a full list of ingredients.  However, while the
kosher authority of Australia may say that if there is definitely a non
kosher ingredient then it will not list the product, it is not a policy that
needs to bind all approving authorities.  As we have seen, other authorities
can take the view that, even where they know that the whey used in the
product contains traces of animal rennet, it is batel and therefore the
product is kosher.  Although this still rather depends on what is meant by
traces of rennet - and whether or not one regards rennet in a Mars Bar as a
definite ingredient, or just a possible ingredient, (ie does every portion
of whey definitely contain some trace of rennet?).


> > b. If there is uncertainty as to the nature of an ingredient or if
> > it's sub-components have not been able to be thoroughly investigated
> --
> > provided that there is a reasonable likelihood that it is of kosher
> origin
> > and in the worst case scenario the ingredient would anyway be batel -
> -
> > the final product will be approved ( but never certified)."

So if they know there is whey as an ingredient, and they know that there is
a reasonable likelihood that whey is produced as a by product of a
cheesemaking process that uses vegetarian rennet, but it might be that it is
produced as a by product of a cheesemaking process that uses animal rennet,
then they will approve it.  Or if they are not able to determine whether
this particular portion of whey contains traces of rennet.  But otherwise
they will not.  That is their personal policy.

> Aren't they asserting that they only rely on bitul when the thing being
> mevutal is not definitely a problem anyway?

Yes, I think they are, but that is not necessarily a view that has to be
taken by all authorities.  After all, what you have here is a double
leniency, ie it is a safek whether it is there, and if it is there, then it
is nullified anyway.  That is already a pretty stringent position.  But the
concept of an approved product does not need the approving authority to go
to this level of stringency, and not all authorities do.  Nor does the
analysis provided by the Kashrus Authority of Australia need one to go to
that level, even if that is what they themselves choose to do.  So when you
are discussing the distinction between approved and certified products,
while the analysis of the distinction made by the Kashrus Authority of
Australia may be useful, it is not appropriate to jump to the conclusion
that everybody therefore only approves products they would approve based on
their rules.

> 
> Since RZS mentioned "approved" products even in the US and Israel,
> unflavored (possibly only if not dark) beer is a famous example.
> Whisky.

Precisely.  Far more dubious halachically than anything we have come near to
discussing.

> The Star-K web site also has the traditional types of tea, including
> Earl
> Gray (which includes oil of bergomot and therfore I thiought it more of
> a
> chiddush) as not needing a hekhsher. Ended up not mattering to me,
> since
> by the time I got this answer from them, they started certifying a good
> and cheap importer anyway.
> 
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha

Regards

Chana