[Avodah] spurious correlation

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 05:43:51PM -0400, David Riceman wrote:
> That's exactly my question.  Shouldn't those who hold that death can  
> ensue before the cessation of breathing also hold that birth can ensue  
> before the onset of breathing? Shouldn't the precise parallel be that a   
> fetus is considered born if it could breathe on its own, even if it's  
> now still unbreathing inside the womb?

1- Do we agree that abortion is not retzichah, at least not the "av
retzichah"? (Thus explaining why the onesh is different for Benei
Yisrael.) If so, the answer to the question on the subject line is
that abortion is assur regardless of when life begins.

2- "Brain death" in this machloqes is actually shorthand for "brain stem
death" which in turn is a stand-in for "the end of autonomous breathing
and/or heartbeat". It is not what the AMA or most countries mean by
the term "brain death".

Chazal have a machloqes about breathing vs hearbeat, do you check the nose
or the chest, etc... But let's put both on one side of the scale, in
contrast to brain death.

AISI whole machloqes isn't whether breathing (or heartbeat) is replaced by
brain activity in our definition of life. Rather, it's whether the breathing
needs to be autonomous, caused by the person's brain step, or whether any
breathing whatsoever qualifies as life.

Therefore, even by the "brain death" definition, life begins at birth for
the same reason as the breathing defnition. Or maybe a couple of seconds
later, when the doctor makes the baby cry its first breath.

3- However, it could well be that there really is no correlation. Say we
side with the gemaros that indicate that death is defined by heartbeat
(or autonomous heartbeat). Then life would begin before birth, at around
6-1/2 to 7 weeks. (The proverbial 40 days?) But as we said above, few
acharonim hold that abortion is murder -- ie rov posqim do not hold life
begins at 40 days. It would seem therefore that either:
a- the start and end of life actually have different definitions, or
b- rov posqim go by breathing, not heartbeat.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             For a mitzvah is a lamp,
micha at aishdas.org        And the Torah, its light.
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