[Avodah] Birds & Fish in the Mabul

[hankman]

R’tn CL wrote:

My comment is thus that if you want to insert our definition of kol haaretz, then you
should be doing so properly, and including everything that we now understand
as kol haaretz, including the moon, otherwise you are arbitrarily stopping
the process - you are not prepared to define it the way the dor hamabul
would have defined it, but neither are you (when pushed) prepared to define
it the way we now understand it to be.

CM notes:

I hear your argument (as well as your opposition’s) but I think the point where you drag the moon into your logic the argument becomes specious. I would restrict the point to the kadur ha’aretz and not argue that your opponents must perforce accept a flood on the moon by their interpretation. I do not think this is an “arbitrary” difference (between the moon and Australia) as you argued.

R’tn LL wrote:

If Pangaea hadn't yet split up, this wouldn't be an issue.

CM notes:

Pangaea is totally irrelevant, since if it existed at all it was in a time frame far removed by hundreds (~250M) of millions and not relevant to our time frame circa a mere 4000 years ago.

RZS wrote:

Malbim understands this to mean that seasons didn't exist before the
mabul. The earth's axis was perpendicular to the ecliptic, so each
place's climate was steady. Rain fell every forty years, and the earth
produced enough food to last until the next rain. 

CM notes:

The 40 year rain cycle prior to Mabul you mention (quoting the Malbim) would raise difficulties in the science of dendrochronology where such a 40 year cycle would be quite apparent but is not noted anywhere in the literature that I have seen. Anchored chronologies go back to well before the Mabul. See wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology.

Also suggesting the Mabul coincided with (or caused) (or was somehow the mechanism causing the Mabul) a huge shift in the axis of the Earth is something for which scientific geologic (or any other) evidence is lacking for that period. Furthermore, such a shift in global climate would also have major repercussions in the oceans and its flora and fauna causing major die outs as tropical fauna could not adapt quickly enough to the climate of (nouveau) polar climates etc, etc. Torah tells us the fish were not affected by the Mabul and science shows no such  major oceanic die outs in that time frame that I am aware of. I wonder if Immanuel Velikovsky ever saw this Malbim?

Kol Tuv

Chaim Manaster


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