[Avodah] The sukkah on Shemini Atzeret controversy

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 05:36:51PM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
:> You write that there were gedolim who weren't willing to keep
:> the insertions. Who?
: 
: My [choose one: understanding, presumption, guess, limud zechus, excuse]
: is that I'm referring to those who eat in the house on Shmini Atzeres. Do
: you have a better explanation of how they justify themselves? ...

It wouldn't be the only time Ashkenazim or a subgroup of Ashkenazim
pasqened differently than the gemara. In the case of mayim achronim, we
apparently hold like the Y-mi which mentions "melach sedomis" but doesn't
make the comparison to mayim rishonim -- and thus gives us room to be
meiqil when no one uses such salt. In the case of tzitzis knots, it looks
like we pasqen like the Sifri -- 5 knots to be added to gematria tzitzis
and the 8 strings to make 613. Menachos really looks like it requires 8
to 14 knots, as it requires 7 to 13 sets of windings. (Although there
are other attempts to make the two work together that read the gemara
in non-obvious ways.)

But I say "we apparently" and "it looks like" because these too are
post-facto. It's not like any rishon up and said, "We Ashkenazim hold
like the pesaq of EY in this matter."

My point is -- there is no reason to believe that Ashk, which includes
the descendents of many people who immigrated from EY and from EY via
Italy, necessarily holds like the Bavli. There are exceptions to the
rule.

A second possibility:

I cited the Minchas Elazar in a comment he made in a discussion of
birkhos hamitzvah. He reinterprets our gemara.

But that isn't the ME's justification ad loc. In 4:31 he says the reason
is that in the lands we live in, sitting in a Sukkah isn't ambiguous -- no
one sits outside for their meals in Oct for fun. It's as much a pegam on
Shemini Atzeres as the gemara's description of why we don't pick up lulav.

(This is also why some have the minhag to only sit in the sukkah on SA
in the day. Night is more clear-cut for the mitzvah than lunchtime.)

: I totally admit that I'm working kind of backwards here, taking this
: practice and building an explanation for it...

That's all we can do. Since no one told us the rules, we have two choices:

1- Assume something simple and clearcut, but that requires assuming that
generations of gedolei haposqim have been violating the rules. Okay, this
isn't really a viable choice, but I find it on line all the time.

2- Try to deduce the rules from the data at hand -- the pesaqim and the
casewise explanations of them.

...
: Call my logic balabatish if you want; I won't be insulted. But until
: I see something better, I'm sticking with it.

I'm a balabus now. I can't see "balebatish" as an insult anymore.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The Maharal of Prague created a golem, and
micha at aishdas.org        this was a great wonder. But it is much more
http://www.aishdas.org   wonderful to transform a corporeal person into a
Fax: (270) 514-1507      "mensch"!     -Rav Yisrael Salanter