[Avodah] Subject: Re: The daf yomi in Chulin 128a Tanaim hold the kishus planted in an otsits sh???aino nakuf is yonaik min ha'aretz-

[hankman]

RMB wrote:
"Leaves me unsatisfied" is not proof that an idea is false.

We live in an era where rapid scientific and engineering progress has
been going on for so long that poeple take it for granted. Coginitive
Man and his quest to "umil'u es haaretz *vekivshuha" is so good at
controlling and mastering his environment, we see the whole world
through his eyes.

This assumption that everything must be scientific is why the Man of
Faith is lonelier today than ever before.

I think the zeitgeist is broken, and misleading you into seeking answers
to questions that aren't real.

CM responds:

I am not talking about being scientific, but I am expecting for truth to prevail in Torah to the best ability. I do look to science for our best notion of what the factual truth may be. (Understanding that some sciences are much better than others at being at or close to the truth than others, and that from time to time science learns some new tricks as well). Even with possible new scientific discoveries, it is fairly clear that much of modern science is here to stay and if any adjustments will be made they will be at the margins of current thought. If one believes Chazal to be infallible in matters of science then these questions are very real. If on the other hand one assumes that Chazal used the best scientific information available at their time then all the questions are not real and fall away.

RMB wrote:

Think about how you think about a plant. Most of the water comes from
under it, and then there is also water from elsewhere. Ther issue isn't
one of majority (a measurably quantity) but of iqar (what people consider
essential).

CM responds:

How I think about it does not matter. I think the question of “majority” vs “iqar (what people consider essential)” as you put it is a novel idea of your invention, one I do not subscribe to. And I am not sure the average person thinks the way you suppose in any case. Even today, the average person, who has had no exposure to botany 101, would not assume any yunika through the leaves from the atmosphere –just via the roots, kal vechomer for the average person bimay Chazal (but clearly Chazal where already aware that the leaves play a role and are involved in the nutrition of the plant – even if this is from the sun and atmosphere and not from the earth via the air.)

Kol Tuv

Chaim Manaster
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