[Avodah] Ethics Outside Halacha

[Micha Berger]

The whole "outside of halakhah" is paradoxical. As I noted here in the
past, one is saying it is ASSUR to be a naval biRSHUS haTorah. In which
case, how do we define "reshus" in that idiom?

So the question becomes how do we define "outside of halakhah". Are we
asking about ethics we would know even before the Torah was given? Do
we mean values relayed in aggadita that we must follow even though they
aren't amenable to codification as halakhah? Both?


On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 11:55:27AM +0300, Eli Turkel wrote:
: Whether there exists an ethic outside of halacha. The two most obvious
: proofs are
: 1. Naval Bershut Hatorah...
: 2. Avraham's argument with G-d of Sdom...

3. As RnTK already noted, Derekh Eretz Qodmah laTorah -- HQBH created 26
generations just to demonstrate the point that there is an ethic that is
a prerequisite to the Torah in general, and thus halakhah in particular.

"Derekh eretz" here appears to be defined as that pre-existing ethic
that I mentioned above.

4. Ve'asisa hayashar vehatov implies that man already has a definition
of yashar and tov other than all those mitzvos bein adam lachaveiro
listed until then in Vayiqra 19.

5. The Rambam obviously considers Aristo's midah habeinonis to reflect a
mandatory ethic, even though there is no specific halakhah and it could
be (and was) deduced by an Artistotle without aggadita.

On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 07:37:35PM +1000, Meir Rabi wrote:
: Firstly, is Naval the same as Evil? Perhaps it only means not nice,
: unpleasant, perhaps even ugly.

It's still an ethic.

I think RMR's question raises a question of whether there is only one
inherent ethical value, which we label evil, or there other values. If
there is only "evil", that the Ramban is clearly saying it's evil to be
"not nice, unpleasant, perhaps even ugly". Perhaps not evil enough to
be prohibited, but still on the same spectrum.

However, if there are multiple axis, neveilah could simply be one of them.

As is, we do have conflicting positive values -- din vs. chesed, emes
vs. shalom, etc... I don't know if tov and qedushuah always coincide,
or yashar... It's an interesting question.

And that question applies even within the bounds of [the values implied
by] halakhah.

: We are certainly bound to repent for bad Midos as per RMBM Hilchos Teshuvah.
: Does that not make midos part of Halacha? Such a Naval is certain to face BD
: Shel MaAlah. Bershus HaTorah perhaps means using a v narrow view but
: ignoring more subtle aspects of Halacha.

As I wrote above, it must.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The purely righteous do not complain about evil,
micha at aishdas.org        but add justice, don't complain about heresy,
http://www.aishdas.org   but add faith, don't complain about ignorance,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      but add wisdom.     - R AY Kook, Arpilei Tohar