[Avodah] Ownership ?

[Zev Sero]

Rich, Joel wrote:
> Zev Sero wrote:
>> Rich, Joel wrote:

>>> Reuven lends shimon a glass vase and tells him he can keep it as long 
>>> as he wants and if by some chance he doesn't return it not to worry 
>>> because Reuven is mochel in advance for that possibility.  On his way 
>>> home, shimon stops at the light where levi, busy talking on his self 
>>> phone, knocks shimon over and the vase breaks. To whom, if anyone, 
>>> does levi pay the value of the vase, and why?

>> Um, this seems extremely simple.  Ask yourself another question, and it
>> will become blindingly obvious:  Suppose Shimon heads straight for the
>> market and sells the vase.  Is he a thief?  Of course he is.

> Is it so blindingly obvious?  What if in your case  Reuvain comes to
> Shimon and asks him for it and shimon says - remember you said if I
> didn't return it you are mochel, well I'm not returning it so your
> mechilah kicks in?

Yes, it is obvious that his mechila was never intended to include
deliberate malfeasance.  But even if it had, mechila is not a kinyan;
it's still Reuven's, and it would remain his even if he were bound by
a promise not to sue for its recovery.

This sounds like the old joke about the son-in-law who tells his
father-in-law "I want you to consider our home as if it were your own",
so the old man sells it.

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher