[Avodah] crime and punishment

[Micha Berger]

I would make a different chiluq than did RSN, when he wrote on Tue,
Jun 16, 2009 at 12:49pm PDT:
: unfortunately , our communities suffer  allegations of crime,  with 
: defendants/convicts..
: it is not clear at  what  point it is permitted to believe or  act on 
: these allegations/convictions.  i am  not sure even after conviction what 
: halachic remedies there are or need to be --
: 1]  monetary crimes 
: 2]  abuse type issues

To me the big question would be whether the crime is likely to be a
one-off, or if the community needs to protect ourselves against repeat.
In the case of abuse, if it was physical abuse or neglect of their own
children, and the state put those children in foster care they might
not pose a threat to anyone else. Sexual abuse, however, carries with
it a huge potential for severe harm to others and a high recidivism rate.

According to the CC, one is chayav to take a "what if" approach to people
who pose potential danger. Not an assumption that they are definitely
guilty, but you aren't expected to be foolhardy either. This is based on
the story of Gedalyah's assasination (he made the "al tehi tzadiq harbei"
mistake and refused to accept LH to the point of not protecting himself
from Yishmael, the assessin) at the end of Melakhim II, and discussed
in the gemara, Niddah 61a.

However, only as far as protecting oneself, no further. You can't mete
punishment or run the guy out of town.

See LH pereq 6 and Rechilus pereq 9.

In my own shul, we kept one person out of shul who was charged with
sexually abusing children befor he moved to town until he was willing
to take and pass the state's psychometric test. If he couldn't pass it,
then NJ would assume the society requires protection against repeat;
and R' Shmuel Kamenetzky (Yeshiva of Philadelphia) and our LOR decided
that's a good criterion for our qehillah as well.

Lemaaseh the goy was charged with abusing two local boys before the
test results were fully evaluated, and the whole thing became moot.


The second question would be at what point does the finding of a secular
court become accepted as fact, rather than an allegation about which
dan lekaf zekhus would apply.

: 3] does it make a difference if halacha says the crime is muttar, but the 
: government says no, and criminalizes it?

Which ties into our longstanding DDD (dina demalkhusa dina) debate,
and how frequent it is that something criminalized /can/ be mutar.

:  4] status in halacha if a klei kodesh is the convicted.  can one retain 
: rav/rabbi/rebbie/rebbe  status when leaving jail---or is this purely up to 
: the community  they serve? 

I'm not sure of the significance in terms of halachic category (beyond
a kohein accused of murder). Either you think the guy is innocent or did
teshuvah in jail, in which case both kelei qodesh and anyone else should
be treated just like the masses, or the person isn't a good role model.

: 5] if this type  of data is important , what vehicle should disseminate 
: it? 

I think this is an Areivim question. WHomever does it, though, needs to
have a serious poseiq.

: 6] where does the public right to know  interface with the halachic right 
: to be free of lashon hara?

"Right to know"? What's that? (I know what it is in Western Legal
dialog, but this is Avodah...)

Halachically, geneivas da'as (GD) does imply an ownership of knowledge,
and thus what Lockian philosophy (an underpinning of US legal theory)
would deem "a right". But GD is about intentionally misleading people,
not keeping silent.

The case of not needing to clear up a misunderstanding in which someone
accidentally thinks they got a favor or an honor is discussed in Ch"M
228:6. It would seem there is no "right to know".

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Like a bird, man can reach undreamed-of
micha at aishdas.org        heights as long as he works his wings.
http://www.aishdas.org   But if he relaxes them for but one minute,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      he plummets downward.   - Rav Yisrael Salanter