[Avodah] bribes

[Zev Sero]

Micha Berger wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 05:14:34PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:

> : No, there isn't.  The only problem is lifnei iver, and mesayea` yedei
> : ovrei avera.  Both are of limited application, depending on the
> : circumstances.   It seems to me pure wickedness to prosecute someone
> : for paying a bribe, as the civil law does, since the payer often has
> : no choice in the matter...

> About as "pure wickedness" as charging a starving man for stealing
> bread. Still, theft is both immoral and a crime.

Theft is indeed immoral.  What's immoral about paying a bribe?  What
duty does the payer have to the recipient's employer, or to uphold
the integrity of the system in question?


> : An important distinction to draw, in general, is whether the bribe
> : induces the official to do something he shouldn't, or something
> : that he should have done without being paid...
> 
> I'm not sure why you say that mesayei'a is of limited application.

It's of limited application both because there may not be an
underlying avera, and because it's not clear to me how far one must
go to avoid being mesayea`, to ones own detriment.


> Pursuit of din is one of the 7 mitzvos; without there being an
> overriding chiyuv making it dechuyah, how can it ever be mutar to
> entice someone to subvert his legal or penal system? I therefore
> think your entire first category is included. (Given that the
> law in question is moral al pi haTorah.)

The question was not just about judges but about all officials.
Most bribes are not paid to judges.

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher