[Avodah] Stam yeinam of Giyur Candidates

[Ken Bloom]

On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 13:33 +0300, Michael Makovi wrote:
> Later, I was speaking to a rabbi of mine, and he told me that Rabbi
> Nathan Lopes Cardozo had showed him, a few years ago, a teshuva of
> Dayan Grossnass of England, Shu"t Leib Arye volume One or Two (he
> didn't remember which, and I haven't had a chance to investigate),
> that ruled that once a person commits to doing giyur, his yayin is no
> longer a halachic issue; he is a yehudi as far as his yayin is
> concerned.
> 
> A question that's occurred to me, and which I have sent to Rabbi Angel
> (so his reply is pending): what of people who have not committed to
> doing Orthodox giyur, but only because they already (wrongly) believe
> themselves to be Jews. That is, people with a Jewish father, people
> with non-Orthodox giyur, etc. These people honestly believe they are
> Jewish, and were they to be convinced that they truly are NOT Jewish,
> they'd of course commit to doing Orthodox giyur.

Well, according to many poskim, a non-shabbat observant Jew does indeed
traif up the wine, so you'd only be able to consider a very small window
of opportunity where this "Jew" has decided he needs to learn about
Mitzvot and become a ba'al teshuva, but hasn't yet discussed with
anybody (or had explained to him) the fact that his father is Jewish,
but his mother is not.

> (While on the subject of people doing giyur: many Israelis seem to
> think it is perfectly alright to treat these people as shabbos goyim,
> asking giyur candidates to turn on their lights. I hope I don't need
> to explain why I find this utterly disgusting, revolting, wretched,
> and putrid. These people exploiting the giyur candidates have no
> derech eretz, have no humanity. I have spoken to giyur candidates
> about this; almost invariably, they find this extremely embarrassing.
> I cannot understand why these people will come to my yeshiva and ask,
> "Do you have any non-Jews here?"; it's absolutely horrible, and as far
> as I'm concerned, these people are rejecting the mitzvot bein adam
> l'havero bichlal; these people, as far as I'm concerned, may as well
> come up to the faces of these giyur candidates, spit, kick, throw mud,
> and taunt and laugh and mock and deride; it's all the same in the end.
> I do not understand how anyone who fears G-d can behave in such a
> manner.)

Are these people following the halachot of amira l'akum correctly to
begin with, or do they see it as a loophole large enough to drive a
truck through? Amira l'akum is an area of halacha that I'm scared to
touch or take advantage of because it's so easily abused.

--Ken