[Avodah] תשובה: Simchas Yom Tov

[Shlomo Pick]

Prof Levine wrote

>Let me, for the sake of argument,  grant you that there is no simchas Yom
Tov at night. What about causing one's family members Tzar or at least
considerable inconvenience to one's family and guests? Is one allowed to do
this for a minhag or even a D'Rabbonon. I do not know.

 

Good question.  Mishna brurah says hold Arvit until leilah mamash. Kaf
hachayim also says that also, but adds if that if that is impossible
(perhaps he is alluding to a place that has only one minyan and they are
mekabel yom tov from let’s plag hamincha) and therefore cannot meacher the
tefilah, should still wait until leilah mamash before making Kiddush, and
this he says twice, at the end of 494:1 and in 494:2.  Aruch haShulchan
concurs that Kiddush should be done (ein mekadshin ad Leila mamash).  So
even if one could daven a bit earlier, the Kiddush should be held off.

Now I don’t understand.  In Vilna and Radin where the chafetz chayim (rav
Mendel Zach’s father-in-law and btw, I was tested in RIETS in YU by rav
Zachs for he was the bochen during my time) was active, there were no old
men, or women or za’ar.  And in all of Lithuania where aruch hashulchan was,
there were no elderly, women and children.  Just bachurei yeshiva? And in
Baghdad, which is much earlier than Lita, there were no women and children
and elderly either. Likewise in the Taz’s community and the entire list
found in kaf hachayim. I simply don’t understand, those elderly didn’t have
all our modern conveniences, all that food, bassar veyayin vechol tuv, and
those blintzes, and gashmiyut and certainly the yeshivalite didn’t have it,
and perhaps their hunger pains were greater, and all these gedolei olam say
to wait.  How insensitive to those guests and those poor people who are
waiting for Kiddush and the meal.

 

I am going to add something else.  Professor Daniel Sperber has two volumes
recently published with this agenda in mind – the friendly posek. The first
is Darka shel Halakha, with such sub-chapter headings as in chapter III
itself entitled Halakhic Super Principles concerning Kavod haBriyot.  This
theme is furthered in his second volume Netivot Pesika which includes the
following chapter:  the friendly Posek and includes the following
subchapters:  Economic sensitivity, sensitivity to the dignity of man and
hsis Za’ar, sensitivity to the family, sanctity of life and pikuach nefesh.
He concludes with a chapter on koach hateira, humility, and striving for the
truth (perhaps that’s in line with this first chapter mandating academic
study of Talmud, including use of manuscripts, academics methods, textual
layers of the mishna and Talmud, historical background etc) all for the
posek looking to be sensitive to the needs of this fellow man, something I
will add that apparently the chafetz chayim in his mishna brurah, or r.
Epstein in his aruch hashulkhan, and r. sofer in kaf hachayim weren’t.

Oh I forgot the main theme of Prof. Sperber’s first book which expands that
theme of kavod habriyot – giving women aliyot, so that they should not have
za’ar…

Chag sameiach

Shlomo Pick

 

 

  _____  

מאת: Prof. Levine [mailto:llevine at stevens.edu] 
נשלח: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:48 PM
אל: avodah at lists.aishdas.org
עותק: Shlomo Pick
נושא: Simchas Yom Tov

 

At 06:25 AM 5/20/2009, R. S. Pick wrote:




The following argument was suggested:

There are opinions that allow one to daven early and even make 

Kiddush early. Also, waiting to daven after Tzeis is a D'Rabbonon. 

However, simchas Yom Tov is a D'oreisa. Most people do not enjoy 

beginning to eat at say 9:30. For kids it is particularly difficult. 

Therefore, davening after Tzeis and then beginning to eat late 

conflicts with the simchas Yom Tov of many. How can this D'Rabbonon 

take precedence over simchas Yom Tov?

In the areivim list I suggested that concerning simchas yom tov at nite:

Not so simple about that simchas yom tov, some authorities hold there is no
simchas yom tov at nite, but only in the daytime in accordance with korbanot
hachag. Accordingly, eat your beef and drink that wine in the day time.  The
only nite that simcha is mandated is leil shmini atzeres which has a special
limud (ribbui).

 

Now that the above argument has become more sophisticated with d'rabbanons
and d'oraitas involved, let's not forget that most mainstream rishonim and
posekim hold that keriyat shma should be recited after tzeis.  This was then
combined with birchot keriyas shma to be recited after tzeis. The Rosh who
represents minhag ashkenaz and others record that one should say tefila with
the congregation but wait with keriyat shma and brachos until after tzeis
According to all these posekim, davening immediately after sunset is a
bedieved situation.  Mention was made of Jacob Katz's article about the
development of the custom to daven early, and how with the vilna gaon and
the Chassidim and the advent of normal clocks, they went back to the old
time religion of the first mishna of brachot and wait with arvit so that
keriyas shma and brachot should be said on time.

So perhaps the argument should be reversed: on the day of accepting the
torah one should look not look for kulos (lenient rulings) but return to the
pristine halakha of the very first mishna in sha'as as poskened by the
majority of rishonim and posekim and say keriyat shma with brachot bezmano. 



I am the one who wrote the first paragraph above about starting to eat at
9:30. First of all, I am wrong about the time here in Brooklyn. The YI of J
will daven Maariv at 9:08 next Thursday night. Allowing 20 minutes for
Maariv and 10 minutes for me to walk home means that I will not be home
before 9:40. Other nearby shuls will start Maariv even later. Shkia on 5/28
in Brooklyn is 8:17 PM. Some shuls will wait 60 minutes after Shkia to start
Maariv, others 72 minutes. Those who daven with these minyanim  will start
to eat even later. 

Let me, for the sake of argument,  grant you that there is no simchas Yom
Tov at night. What about causing one's family members Tzar or at least
considerable inconvenience to one's family and guests? Is one allowed to do
this for a minhag or even a D'Rabbonon. I do not know. 

What I do know is what was written in the article "Setting Limits Based on
the Insights of Harav Mendel Zaks, zt'l"  that appeared  in the Hamodia
Magazine on March 18, 2009. I have posted this article with the permission
of the Hamodia at
http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/hamodia/setting_limits.pdf

The author, Rabbi Moshe Hubner, writes:

"On the other hand, the Beis Hamikdash was a stationary building; Bnei
Yisrael were never going to move it to a location outside Yerushalayim.
Therefore, the more donations were accepted, the more mitzvos the givers
would acquire and the more glorious the Beis Hamikdash would appear, at
nobody elses expense.

Harav Zaks stresses that this should teach us all a great lesson in
consideration. In attempting to fulfill a commandment, a person must first
consider the impact of the mitzvah on others. Even if a deed appears good or
charitable, one must contemplate and project the outcome beforehand. An
individual will not receive the same benefit and reward for doing a mitzvah
if it creates a burden for someone else."

In many homes starting to eat after 9:30 does indeed create a burden for
others. (This is why early minyanim of Erev Shabbos after Pesach are so
popular in many places.) Given this and the fact that there are those who
say that one can daven early, I fail to see why one would wait.  It seems to
me that the truly religious approach would be to have concern for one's
family and daven early.

I have been told that Reb Yisroel Salanter used to say, "The other person's
gashmius is your ruchnius." (If this is not an accurate quote, there are
certainly many stories about him to show that this is the way he conducted
himself.) Why not do the ruchnius thing? 




Yitzchok Levine

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