[Avodah] Evaluating the Meshorah

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 07:30:29PM -0700, Harvey Benton wrote:
: The following is information that I have gathered regarding
: the viability of our Mesorah.  Please evaluate

Its viability isn't in question. We live by it, it works.

You can collect data about how it is viable, by anyone who actually
follows halakhah would have no question about the viability of the things
it's founded upon.

...
: 1.Torah Text Authenticity; Many sources indicate our
: modern-day sifrei Torahs are not letter for letter, word for word authentic
: copies of the original STorah written by Moshe Rabeinu.  (Yerushalmi Taanit
: 4:2, Soferim 6:4, Tos Shabbas 55b, extensive work by Gil Student, etc,).

Not an issue. As you site, RGS discusses this.

: 2. Torah v. Torah Discrepancies: Count 50 days for the Omer
: v. Count 7 weeks; Eat Matza for 6 days v. Eat Matza for 7 days...
: discrepancies are explained away by the mesorah we are currently attempting to
: evaluate; but nevertheless, they exist.]

This is called derashah. It's how the TSBP works. Now, if you didn't buy
into TSBP -- despite it being the source for the overwhelming majority
of the aforementioned halakhah -- then you would have a great question
disproving Qaraism and Xian Fundamentalism.

This isn't like you're mentioning anything new.

To put it another way, you say much by speaking about what is "explained
away" rather than "explained". The former is a term someone uses when
they think the answer post-dates the question. Rather, it proves to
anyone who bought into the TSBK that it can only be "Cliff Notes" for
a far greater TSBP. Beliefs that stand on one without the other fail.
Beliefs that TSBP is a later rabbinic invention fail. Nu? Neither of
those are us. Just add C to the two aforementioned groups that have to
grapple with your question.

And the difference in the redemptive quality of C and halakhah should
have gotten you to that point already.

: 3.Nach v. Nach Discrepancies:  taken from:
: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

Ditto.

: 4.Mesorah (zugos, etc.,) as they appears in Pirkei Avos and
: in the Rambam....

And the problem is?

: 5.Mishna v. Mishna discrepancies; many.
: 6.Mishna v. Baraisa v. Tosefta discrepancies (some resulting
: in different Halachic interpretations); many.
: 7.Gemmara re-phrasing and re-editing of Mishnayot (chasurei
: mechsora; something being heard/darshened out in the name of someone else,
: etc.,)    

Isn't this why TSBP is dynamic? The whole G-d - man partnership means
that there will be human interpretation and thus machloqes. That's the
point -- G-d giving us the tools to redeem ourselves.

: 10. Many known cases of xian (muslim?) censors editing
: and/or changing parts of Shas.

And the problem is?

: 11. Zohar Authenticity; many hold that the Zohar (or part of
: it) was not authored by the Rashbi, including R. Yaakov Emden (Sefer Mishpat
: Sefarim)....

Not quite. He writes that a core was written by Rashbi, and the rest grew
around it before publication. Realize also that the Zohar was accepted
as authentic by the rishonim of the period -- that limits how new the
ideas in it could have been.

As for its halachic impact, the Vilna Gaon went through the entire Zohar
and found no nafka mina lemaaseh. Even the Chassidim, who did find new
practices based on the Zohar found what -- all of a half-dozen or so? Does
that really blow into a major question about the mesorah as a whole?

: 12. Many Baal Shem Tov Stories never happened, yet are
: repeated world-wide thousands of times a day (and even more often on
: Shabbas)....

And the problem is?

You have something against inspiring stories? Or do you think the naivite
of many listeners makes the whole mesorah problematic?


The way these questions are piled on, each requiring pages of response --
and already addressed here in the --- past makes me wonder about the
person who posed them to you. To paraphrase R' Chaim Brisker -- are
these questions to which he is seeking answers, or are these his answers?

The notion of Sabbath rest that produced a Chafetz Chaim is the one
found in his Mishnah Berurah. How many presumptions questioned in your
post are taken for granted in order to start discussing irui keli rishon
and tea leaves?

    Sof davar hakol nishma
    es haElokim yera
    ve'es mitzvosav shemor
    ki zeh kol ha'adam.

Try that, and the questions evaporate. It becomes a question of "how
is it so obviously viable despite", not questioning viability. The
explanations of TSBP are obviously Divine Intent as given (or inspired,
in the case of Nach) along with the text, not an after thought to
"explain away" a problem. The conclusion is obvious -- "ta'amu ure'u",
"na'aseh venishmah". First taste and do.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 40th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        5 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Yesod: When does
Fax: (270) 514-1507      reliability/self-control mean submitting to others?