[Avodah] Where Bread Comes From

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 08:11:20PM +0000, rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com wrote:
: Micha: (Re: Hirsch and "nishma"..)
:> I also wonder how much the response is formal reflection in conscious
:> thought as opposed to experiential.

: Both. It is aisi both intellectual contemplation like a RYDS might
: do but also the touchy-feely kind that maybe someone likea R Shlomoh
: Carelbach might do.

Look how similar TIDE and Slabodka are in terms of objective.

The ideal Herr Rabbiner Doctor is cultured, refined, pays attention
to his dress and the impression he creates. An emphasis on human
dignity as part of Jewish expression. The Mensch-Israel.
Ands what would I have to change of that to describe Slabodka's ideal
alumnus? Less value assigned to cultural development -- although they
valued personal creativity in poetry and music, secular education was
relegated to satifying curiosity on the side. It was expected that you
were well read; but nothing like a PhD.

There is a fundamental difference in how they define refinement. R'
Hirsch speaks in terms of culture. Slabodka, unsurprisingly, in terms
of middos. The overlap is large, but they are far from identical.

I think that also underlies their difference in approach to taamei
hamitzvos.

RSRH makes it about internalizing messages. And therefore when the
message is unclear, he invokes symbology. Symbols do present messages
in a manner where they can be better internalized. Thus the power of
poetry over prose. (They also provide metaphor, and therefore can convey
more than is explicitly stated. A symbol not only allows a message to
go from mind to heart, it also allows the heart's message to be more
fully grasped by the mind.)

Mussar looks to mitzvos to behaviorally change the person. Mitokh shelo
lishmah ba lishmah via hergel. "Smile, and eventually you'll be happier."
Therefore one needn't bring everything down to comprehensible terms. The
human soul is understandably more complex than human understanding;
the mind isn't big enough to contain itself.

This allows for an answer to the value of mitzvos even when you don't
have the symbol key. Something I found a "show stopper" of a problem
and caused my loss of interest in the approach used in Horeb and CW vol
III. (Compare to my posts in Avodah volumes 1-4.)

I was thinking more of that dichotomy than RSCarlebach as a contrast.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 15th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        2 weeks and 1 day in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Chesed sheb'Tifferes: What is the Chesed in
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            harmony?