[Avodah] Kinyan on Shabbas? (Har Sinai)

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 09:15:29AM -0700, harveybenton at yahoo.com wrote:
: 1. I did not know that the Torah is/was considered a gift. I was taught,
: that, among other things the Torah was not given to us to derive pleasure
: from (as a gift does), but rather as a yoke upon our necks.

That's not what's relevent. The problem with qinyan is that it looks
like doing business, a shevus. With all the questions of how much of
shevus is deOraisa. I believe the particlar acts prohibited were left
to the rabbanan, even if one says the basic concept is deOraisa.

: 2. Kinyan Questions: 
: A Did Hashem make us his nation at Har Sinai (or at Yetzias
: Mitzrayim?). If at Har Sinai, isn't that considered a Kinyan on the part
: of Hashem??

He gave us the role of bechor. But we and every other nation are and
always were His.

Besides, He blows things around with wind in a reshus harabbim, causes
death, etc... Who ever said Hashem observes hilkhos Shabbos?

: B. Didn't WE agree to accept the Torah at Har Sinai and follow
: its dictates (under pain of death acc: to chazal); Is that not to be
: considered a Kinyan?

Isn't that the whole question -- given that there was a qinyan, how
could it be done on Shabbos? No one is saying it's not a qinyan; rather,
that like a gift that doesn't mean it's prohibited. Tzorekh mitzvah
or tzorekh Shabbos could override.

: C Can we make a valid distinction between being commanded to do something
: on Shabbas (as is the case with Har Sinai) as a ONE TIME commandment,
: versus being commanded to do something Forever, as is the case with
: Accepting the Torah?  Would the latter case not be akin (at the
: minimum) to being a Kinyan?

Certainly. That's why I mentioend horaas shaah. Accepting the Torah,
even if it otherwise would be assur, was within a navi's authority
to relay simply because it's one-time. Eliyahu beHar haCarmel.

: D. Can one acquire an eved, get married,
: or enter into any (lasting) legal obligations whatsoever on Shabbas
: (accetping a neder on oneself?) ?? If not, why is Kabbalas Ol Malchut
: Shamayim or Kabbas HaTorah (forever), any different if it was entered into on
: Shabbas Kodesh?  (We are considered variously as "brides" of Hashem,
: "Ovdei" Hashem, etc., )

There was a time when weddings were usually on Friday, so that the
seudah can overlap with seduas Shabbos. People were really really poor,
so saving the cost of a Shabbos meal was enough to suggest a time for
the wedding. So the question of weddings on Shabbos came up every time
the waited for a family member or otherwise ran into sheqi'ah.

The Semag permits, if the man hasn't yet fulfilled piryah verivyah.

The Rama was mesader qiddushin such a wedding (shu"t #125, sec 8) in the
case of a girl whose first enagement was broken off by the chasan when
her father died leaving them without a dowery. and this was her second
fiance. His main concern was a gezeirah maybe they'll write the kesuvah
on Shabbos, but I couldn't find this gezeirah when I looked through
Chazal. Not that my research failure should be taken to mean much. He
permits on the grounds of kavod haberi'os (not to further embarass her),
concern that the shiduch might be called off too (and she could remain
alone permanently). See also what he writes on OC 229:4.

>From what I understand, this was the end of Friday weddings in Krakov,
so that further delays wouldn't cause a reoccurance of the problem.

(This was discussed in one of RaRakefetR's recorded shiurim on shu"t,
the year he focussed on the evolution of the current wedding ceremony.
I vaguely recall RAZZ having a column on the topic in Jewish Action.)

And the big problem discussed is the be'ilas mitzvah because gezeira shema
yishchot ben owf (Kesuvos 4a). See Tosafos (Kesuvos 7a "dehilkhasa")
who show that the gemara concludes be'ilah rishonah is permitted. The
Rif skips that beraisa, so I guess he agrees.

Enough to say that this metaphoric "wedding" would be fine.

: E. Perhaps Shabbas was not something that was binding on the Jews at the
: Time of Har Sinai (as it preceded the kabbalah of Aseres Hadibros?) and
: therefore all of these questions of mine are mute.... ???

I already mentioned that Shabbos was first given at Marah. I argued
that since the current chiyuv dates to Shavuos, not Marah, one could
argue that Matan Torah was letzorekh Shabbos, sufficient grounds for
accepting a gift on Shabbos -- and therefore it would seem sufficient
for other non-sales qinyanim as well.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 13th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        1 week and 6 days in/toward the omer.
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