[Avodah] hashgacha pratis for NJ [Stam yeinam of Giyur Candidates]

[T613K at aol.com]

From: Zev Sero _zev at sero.name_ (mailto:zev at sero.name) 

>> I agree, and I'm  astonished at the LBD's attitude.   If anything I'd
have called it  a test which she passed, like that of Dama ben Netina.
But it seems from your  story that this was all hashgacha pratit, since
as a result of the BD's  intransigent attitude when she met her basherter
she was able to marry  him.  What a tragedy it would have been had she
gone through with the  giyur, only to find that she had left her "other
half" behind! I assume that  he is not interested in Judaism, so there's
no hope of their converting  together. <<


>>>>>
You are assuming something  that is actually a non-resolved issue, much 
discussed in these pages:  that  Hashgacha Pratis applies to goyim.   You are 
also assuming that the  bas kol that calls out "Bas Ploni l'Ploni" designates 
particular zivugim for  goyim as well as for Jews. I am among those who 
believe that indeed Hashgacha  Pratis does apply to the nations of the world 
(the literal definition of  "goyim") as well as to the Jewish people, and I 
also happen to believe that each  person in the world really does have a 
designated "other half."   But my impression is that the belief system to which 
/you/ seem to  subscribe in other contexts -- Chabad -- does not share my 
view of  how Hashgacha Pratis operates.

 


BTW I am appalled at the actions of the London Bais Din in this case.   
Unconscionable.  Even if the lady in question did meet her "bashert" as the  
result, which, who knows if the man she married really was her "bashert"?
 
Related question I sometimes wonder about:  I know several Jewish men  who 
became frum after marrying non-Jewish women, sometimes years later when  
there were children already, and whose wives later had Orthodox conversions  
and are now living regular frum lives with their BT husbands.  My question  
is, is it possible that when the bas kol said, "Bas Ploni l'Ploni" that the 
Bas  Ploni in question was not even Jewish at the time of the Heavenly  
announcement?!   Or is it necessarily the case in each of these  marriages that 
the marriage is a zivug sheni and that the original, intended,  zivug rishon 
of the man in question has been left out in the cold in the  inexorable game 
of matrimonial musical chairs?  (Or she has married  /her/ zivug sheni, 
leaving her present husband's zivug rishon out in the  cold....)
 


--Toby  Katz
==========



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