[Avodah] r. ovadia; bullfighting; eiva, etc....

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 09:26:49PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
: harveybenton at yahoo.com wrote:
:>Can we apply the following kal vechomer: if to prevent an
:>animal from suffering that is not mechuyav on any mitzvos then for sure we
:>should be able to save a life of a ben adam, who is chayav 7 mitzovs and 
:>who was/is created in Hashem's image, by violating the shabbas?? [either 
:>midoraisa (a"y), or midirabonnon (muktzeh - animal) or  both...]
...
: But in fact even for derabanans your kal vachomer doesn't work.  Tzaar
: baalei chayim is an explicit de'oraisa ("lo sir'eh"), so it makes sense
: that it overrides issurim derabbanan.  But where do you see an explicit
: de'oraisa for tzaar nochri?

The argument extending lo sachsom shor bedisho to human employees presumes
that TBC is lo kol shekein about people too.

BTW, the definition of a person is a "chai medabeir" -- IE Ber' 3:2, Radaq
Shofetim 13:17, Abarbanel Shemos 20, (Bar Ilan CD).... (I always thought
it was very Aristo; the definition matches his notion of definition --
giving the class and then what makes this element unlike the rest of
the class.)

The Maharsha (Sanhedrin pereq 11, still BICD): Ki tachlis beri'as ha'adam
sheniqra "chai medabeir" stam....

Be'er haGolah 5:1 tells us the tzurah of man is "chai medabeir"...

There are also hits from R' Saadia, the Moreh, Chovos haLvavos, all
defining man, his nature or his tzurah as "chai medabeir".


That said, about the original question...
When we say "mishum eivah" is docheh Shabbos, is that really derabbanan
too? RHB's question is based on assumption -- I'm starting by asking if
someone can verify that assumption.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 40th day, which is
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