[Avodah] shabbas 55b; neged pshat?

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Harvey Benton <harveybenton at yahoo.com>wrote:
>> Shalom Toby and good Shabbas:> from golus,
>> 1. the chumash clearly states reuven slept with bilha. any other
>> interpretations that say he didn't sleep with her, open up a very dangerous
>> can of worms: who is to say "chazer" or "ribis" or "shabbas" prohibitions
>> really mean ""chazer" or "ribis" or "shabbas"?? maybe they mean something
>> else??? ....... along the same lines, who is to say adam actually "ate" from
>> the tree of knowledge? maybe (according to similar reasoning) he did an
>> aveira, but not necessarily the exact aveira described....which was
>> specified in the chumash?
>> 2. if reuven only moved his father's bed, why not say so? why say somthing
>> that would make him appear worse in the reader's eyes??"....

===============================================

Q: And what about ayin tachas ayin?
Rav Gorelick approached this as follows - AIUI loosely based upon the RambaN
...

Q: if ayin tachas ayin was not meant literally why was it written that way
at all?
A:  Because midinei Shamayim that is what SHOULD be done, but Beis Din does
not have the yecholes to execute this precisely [lehavdil think Shakespeare
and a pound of flesh] so it is limitted to mamonos.  I callit equitable
compensation.

Now here is the dichotomy that may help about how literal Torah Shebichsav
[Mikra]is meant to be taken.  These are mostely culled from ayain tachas
ayin threads from Avodah

Mikra:  metaphorical
TSBP:   normative

Mikra:  Middas Haddin
TSBP:   Middas Harachamim

Mikra: Dinei Shamayin
TSBP: Dinei Adam

Mikra: Psycholgical imagery. Visualization.  imagination.  Spiriutal
perspective [hashkafa]
TSBP: Practical applications of the above to the real world

Beniddon diddon I think the Midrash is saying:
In fact Reuven and David did less than what Mikra says

But - Bedinei shamayim they are as culpable as the text states.

Tangentially this explains this like hezek she'eino nikkar and places where
the Talmud says chayeav beindei Shamayim but no bedinei Adad.  When I gave
daf on the penultimate daf on Baba Kamma I asked
Q: If BD can be machmir on issur v'heter then why not on dinei Mamoanos?
A: Because BD is limited in its ability to mete out justice justly. Only BD
shel ma'aleh can weigh all fagtors fairly.

-- 
Kol Tuv - Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nishma-Minhag/