[Avodah] Dying al Kiddush Hashem

[Yitzhak Grossman]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 05:36:36 -0500
Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 07:56:41PM -0500, Yitzhak Grossman wrote:
> : > See the hair raising and heartbreaking description in the Kinnah
> : > "Haharishi Mi'Meni Va'Adaberah" of the unknown martyrs' decision to
> : > implement a communal murder / suicide pact:
> : > <Quote>
> : > And they gathered B'Prishus and in purity
> : > to sanctify God's great and awesome name
> : > and each man strengthened his brother with support
> : > to cling [to him] with pure awe
> : > to refrain from bowing to Avodah Zarah
> 
> This was about choosing suicide over forced shemad. Not about being
> given a choice to convert and avoid attack.

The point is that those celebrated as martyrs *chose* death, for
religious reasons.

...

> To further extend RMP's idea, I think the typical version of events,
> emphasizing the choice of avodas Hashem and death over shmad, is a
> confusion of national choice and individual choice. The community, en
> masse, refused. The silent majority were never given a voice. I'm not
> saying they would have chosen otherwise, ch"v to even suggest that!
> I'm saying tht their opinion didn't matter to the course of events.

Even if so, my point still stands; the martyrs of the Crusades were
celebrated for their *decisions*, whether on an individual or communal
level, and not for their mere victim-hood.

> Micha Berger             I slept and dreamt that life was joy.

Yitzhak
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