[Avodah] Sephardi-ism: some food for thought

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 10:41:20PM -0000, Chana Luntz wrote:
:> RMM echoed R'Micha:
:>> I agree with R' Micha that Sefaradim seem to rely on
:>> majority-vote...whereas Ashkenazim rely on sevara....

: Eek.  I know that ROY dominates Sephardi psak these days, and this is often
: said about him  - although I confess I think people are often confusing...
:       if you really read his teshuvos you see they are a lot more
: sophisticated than that.  But he certainly canvasses all opinions and is
: prepared to rule against some of those he quotes.

: And I guess if you go back in time, the Shulchan Aruch (himself a Sephardi)
: does say this about himself in that that he decides by majority vote between
: the Rif, the Rambam and the Rosh.  

Those were the two cases I was thinking of.

: But still I think this is a huge generalisation...
:    the Ben Ish Chai, but what I have read does not come across that way at
: all (if anything he is very very influenced by Kabbalistic considerations,
: which the majority do not necessarily take into account)...

My point was only the generalization. And even if I'm mistaken, which is
quite likely (eg the BIH), the existence of this stereotype wouldn't stand
if in reality "Sepharda-ism" had a tendency of preferring leniency. Nor
does it stand up to the BIH's qabbalah-based taam hamitzvos means of
resolving ties. (Disproving this point was where this thread began.)

: > Where does the MB fit into this dichotomy?

: Well if you are going on stereotypes, then the stereotype of the MB is that
: he neither poskens based on sevara nor relies on majority vote, but tries to
: go l'chumra for all shittos...

Although I still do not believe the CC was attempting to pasqen this
way. Not a tangent I necessarily want to reopen right now, as it's true
of whomever decided the MB was a seifer of pesaq, whether it was the CC,
RAKotler, or RYKamenecki.

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 11:03:39PM -0000, Chana Luntz wrote:
:> Of course one can't use chessed to justify mutating pesaq, 
:> but it is a "pro" to weigh -- or even to hunt out -- when 
:> faced with multiple justifiable answers?

: I have no clue about R' Zevin but you are forgetting about a whole range of
: halachic concepts which we do find throughout the literature operate to
: mitigate or and in some cases overrule what might otherwise be the
: straightforward psak - kavod habriyos ..., darkei shalom, shalom bayis,
: pikuach nefesh, b'shas hadchak ...                         even lifnin
: meshuras hadin somewhat - these are off the top of my head...

There are three issues:
1- The false issue of "rabbinic will halachic way". We all agree that
not everything a rav really wants to be able to do can be done. I am
just mentioning it because the blog title did, and to better clarify
#2...

2- Searching for a pesaq. This is like looking for senifim lehaqeil
in order to permit an agunah. It's an ends-driven system of halakhah
that is only usable for a few dinim. (This being a major error in C
legal process, #1 being another.)

This then slides with no clear line into #3...

3- Using the concerns for the needs of the sho'eil to decide a
machloqes. The poseiq isn't trying to pile up the reasons, but when left
with his usual methodology the argument lequlah isn't sufficiently weaker
to warrant the cost/pain to the sho'eil.

When I mentioned hefsed merubah, I conflated these two issues (the two
real ones). By bringing in more examples, you open the question for
each. And even more involved... when the basic question is deRabbanan,
does it justify seeking qulah? Was this particular deRabbanan coined
with an explicit loophole for this inyan?

And I guess my argument against this alleged Sepharadiism is that there
is no indication Ashk or Seph disagree on either.

I'm not sure I would lump all of these together. Hefseid merubah is
a chessed concern for the poseiq, but not a halachic issue for the
sho'eil. Darkei shalom, piquach nefesh, these are themselves halachic
mandates with their own specific dinim that outweigh many other halakhos.
The poseiq isn't seeking a qulah, he's seeking a chumrah in a more
significant din.

Of your list, perhaps only kavod haberi'os (when it's the sho'eil's kavod,
eg Shabbos toilet paper) fit my intent when I wrote of hefseid merubah.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A life of reaction is a life of slavery,
micha at aishdas.org        intellectually and spiritually. One must
http://www.aishdas.org   fight for a life of action, not reaction.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            -Rita Mae Brown