[Avodah] Praying to angels

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 11:59am EDT, R Zev Sero wrote:
:>Not sure why the 13 middos are included. I assume this is a reference to
:>something in a piyut that I missed. As middos of how Hashem acts toward us
:>that we should emulate (cf Tomer Devorah), where is the implied middleman?

: The piyut "shlosh esre midot", which addresses "kol midah nechonah"
: directly, asking it to put in a good word for the speaker.

That's really confusing. At least mal'akhim are nivra'im. What are the
middos?

:>All your bottom line shows is that it's appropriate RAG and RSG. What
:>about for someone who can't resolve the question? If I personally can't
:>see how the prayer isn't shituf, am I allowed to say it? What would my
:>kavanah be?

: Whatever RAG and RSG intended.  Just like in the yehi ratzons after
: tashlich, where we ask that what we've read go up "as if we understood
: all the secrets and combinations of Holy Names that come out of them..."

Similarly, on Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 4:25pm GMT, R Daniel Israel wrote:
: The MB (and probably others) suggest in several places (but in very 
: different contexts) that a person should have kavannah on some act 
: to fulfill whatever Chazal intended.  I don't see why this 
: shouldn't work here...

First, there is a difference between mitzvos ma'asiyos and tefillah. The
latter is avodah shebaleiv, and kavanah is the core part of the mitzvah.

There is also a difference between a black box and a tefillah that seems
to be saying something wrong. It's not just a lack of possible kavanah,
it's that the tefillah brings up thoughts one shouldn't be having. It's
a negative, not a zero.

GCT and :-)@@ii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
micha at aishdas.org        with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
http://www.aishdas.org   Kippur with that intent.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rabbi Israel Salanter