[Avodah] Ribbis from non-Jews (was: LH about non-Jews)

[Chana Luntz]

RMT writes:

> RMikha'el Makovi writes: 
> 
> > Actually, it is forbidden by the Torah to take interest from a 
> > gentile. The Torah permits interest to a nochri, which, as 
> the Hertz 
> > Chumash teaches, is a gentile passing through the land, not an 
> > inhabitant.
> 
>      WADR to the Hertz chumash, it is explicit in the g'mara 
> (Bava M'tzia 72a) that one is permitted to take interest even 
> from a ger toshav, who is hardly a "gentile passing through 
> the land."  Indeed, according to most rishonim, it is a 
> mitzva to charge the goy (though not the ger toshav), but 
> Chazal restricted it to only what is necessary for 
> sustenance, so as to prevent the Jew from coming into too 
> close contact with his debtor and learning from his actions 
> "b'rov y'shivaso imo" -- hardly the description of a 
> transient association. (See, e.g., Rambam Malveh v'Loveh 5:1-2.) 

Well, to be fair to the Hertz Chumash, a nochri is actually forbidden to
live in the land unless he embraces the sheva mitzvos bnei noach (or
according to some opinions of Rashi, at least renounces avodah zara).
It is just that absent Jewish sovereign powers we aren't in any position
to enforce that.  To my mind this rabbinic enactment banning interest is
dealing with the reality, not the ideal, in which there would be
virtually no contact and at most a transient association.

Getting back to the original discussion, namely loshen hora vis a vis a
ger toshav, who is permitted to live in our midst ie "b'kirbecha", the
Rambam certainly understands our obligation of l'hachayosan as including
treating them b'derech eretz v'gimlus chasadim (see hilchos Melachim
10:12).  Given that lashon hora is likened to shvichas damim (see
Arachin 15b), and further given the counterpoint of l'chayosan to
shvichas damim would that not seem to make lashon hara perhaps the most
straightforward application of the Rambam's characterisation (although I
do note that Rashi at least holds that the mitzvah of hocheach nocheach
does not apply to a ger toshav - see Sanhedrin 75a d'h "v'im ita", which
mitzvah is I think one of those counted by the Chofetz Chaim as
constituting one of the many issurim of loshen hora).

Vis a vis a genuine nochri, ie an idol worshipper, one does have to
wonder how the opportunity for loshen hora is going to arise.  Loshen
hora is something only really possible if one has a certain level of
relationship with the subject.  It is pretty much impossible for me to
speak loshen hora about any particular Eskimo, as I don't know any, not
even an Eskimo's name. So I can't work out how I would do it, even if I
wanted to.  The greater the relationship between people, the easier it
is and the more instinctive it is, perhaps, to talk lashon hora about
that person. It is not really surprising that the classic case of loshen
hora in the Torah is between brother and sister.   I suspect that if
somebody has the level of relationship with a genuine akum that leads
them to be in the position to be talking loshon hora, there is already
arguably a problem.

> EMT 

Regards

Chana