[Avodah] Cave or desert island

[T613K at aol.com]

From: "Michael Makovi" _mikewinddale at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:mikewinddale at gmail.com) 


>>  It is davka in haAretz where we will be a mamlechet kohanim
v'goy kodash, and  thus an ohr lagoyim.

As Rabbi [Eliezer] Berkovits puts it, it takes  a nation to influence a 
nation.
Despite Rav Hirsch's words to the contrary,  the gentiles will not be
disposed to looking to Jewish aliens in their midst  for guidance; for
one, we are weak and unattractive in galut, and two, we  don't have an
army, government, or economy....<<
 
TK:  I agree with R' Hirsch and emphatically disagree with R'  Berkowitz.  
One of the reasons that we were dispersed all over the world  was precisely 
because we failed to accomplish our mission of "ohr lagoyim" when  we were in our 
own land.  We were therefore given another way and another  opportunity to do 
it, scattered among the nations.  
 
In the nations that we live among, Jews have acquired a reputation for  being 
intelligent, industrious, law-abiding and peaceable citizens.  We  have had a 
positive influence on the entire course of history and  Western civilization. 
 Tragically, all too many of our  fellow Yiddelech have also been among the 
major destroyers of civilization  -- the name of Marx especially comes to mind, 
but one may also count Freud,  Asimov, Betty Friedan, Carl Sagan, Peter 
Singer, Noam Chomsky and many  other Jewish mechablim, great and small.  But the 
list of Jews who  have benefited the countries they lived in, and who created a 
wondrous  name for the Jewish people, would literally fill pages.
 
"We don't have an army, government, or economy"  -- we don't  /need/ an army, 
government or economy to be a memleches  kohanim and ohr lagoyim.  Remember 
R' Saadia Gaon's famous  dictum, "Ein umaseinu umah eleh betorasa"  -- We are a 
nation by virtue of  our Torah.
 
While our main purpose as frum Jews scattered among the nations is to  live 
Torah lives and serve as a model of probity and morality, we also  have an 
obligation to positively and actively influence the goyim  among whom we live. Of 
course, that obligation holds only to the extent that  circumstances make it 
possible.  In America, we have an obligation to  vote for the candidates who 
will most advance the morality of the country.   We also have an obligation to 
make our voices heard in the public square.  
 
The post that was sent in by R' Gershon Seif, about his wife's testimony  
before the Wisconsin Senate, was an excellent example of this. (He wrote that  
she testified against a bill that would legalize physician-assisted  suicide.  
This is the type of issue where the Agudah has been very strong  and active.)
 


 
RMM:  >>....Likewise, we don't serve for Olam Haba....Rav Hirsch  says that 
Judaism exists for
this world, and that is why the Torah doesn't  speak of olam haba -
because it's really not very important. ....Rather, the  Messianic Era will 
come, and we'll be
resurrected, and thus we'll live in the  Messianic Era for eternity -
see Rabbi Berkovits [in] G-d Man and  History.<<

TK:  I am very uncomfortable with the way you keep  quoting R' Berkovits and 
RSRH, as if they were equals and  contemporaries.  The two are simply not 
comparable, and R' Berkowitz is  barely even on the normative Orthodox scale.  I 
also think you are  seriously misreading Hirsch if you have come to the 
conclusion that "olam haba  really isn't important."  Your understanding of Hirsch 
has been influenced  by your reading of a modern left-Orthodox philosopher, it 
seems to  me.


RMM:  >>But why? Why did He choose us? Why did He love  us? Why did He 
sanctify
us with His mitzvot and proclaim His name on  us?

AL KEN n'kaveh...AL KEN. The reason He chose us, the ENTIRE  reason,
the entire reason for the entire first paragraph of Aleinu, is for  us
to bring the whole world to worship Him. <<
 
TK:  I think there is a confusion here about the two meanings of the  word 
"why."  (There may even be more than two meanings.)  "Why?" can  mean, "What is 
the reason, the cause?" or it can mean, "What is the  purpose?"  
 
For example, a person might ask, "Why is the kettle hot?"  One answer  might 
be, "Because I turned the stove on" -- that is the cause.   A different answer 
would be, "Because I want a cup of tea"  -- that  is the purpose.
 
"Why did He choose us? Why did He love us?"  
 
The *reason*:  the Avos chose Him.  In sharp contrast to all the  nations who 
rejected or just ignored Him, our forefathers sought Him out and  chose to 
cling to Him in defiance of all the other gods and religions of their  time.  A 
similar thing happened again when Hashem offered the Torah to all  the nations 
of the world, and once again, the goyim rejected the Torah while  the nation 
of Yisrael embraced it. 
 
"Why did He choose us?"  
 
The *purpose*:  "so that the whole world will be filled with the  knowledge 
of Hashem."  He chose us to keep the Torah and to teach G-dliness  to the whole 
world.
 
 
BTW this is as good a time as any to quote again one of my favorite bits of  
doggerel.  This was in answer to the anti-Semitic couplet, "How odd of G-d/  
to choose the Jews."  The response was:  "It's not so odd/ the Jews  chose G-d."



--Toby Katz
=============
Romney -- good values,  good family, good hair
Best hope against  Hillary




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