[Avodah] assisted suicide

[T613K at aol.com]

From: Gershon Seif _gershonseif at yahoo.com_ (mailto:gershonseif at yahoo.com) 

>>My  wife (who is a lobbyist for Agudah) was in Madison, WI yesterday to 
join a long  list of people/organizations who came to voice their objection to a 
proposed  bill to allow physician assisted suicide.

Some of the people who spoke in  favor of the bill tried to show how Shimshon 
would have been in favor of  assisted suicide....

What are the basic chilukim between Shimshon's  situation and a person 
suffering from a teminal illness, that would allow him to  do what he did, and yet 
forbid assisted suicide? 
 
My first hunch is that by Shimshon it was only a grama. And it might even  be 
a safek, whereas what the assisted suicide wants to allow would be a vadai  
and quite direct.<<





>>>>>
A talmid chacham of my acquaintance told me (when I asked) that the  people 
who jumped out of the World Trade Center rather than be burned to death  were 
not committing suicide or doing anything wrong -- that at the point of  death, 
if you have a choice, you're allowed to choose.  Say a killer gave  his victim 
a choice of death by gun or by bow and arrow -- the victim would be  allowed 
to choose. It may be that Shimshon was that close to death and chose to  die 
in a way that would bring down the Plishtim with him.
 
In the case of a person suffering from a terminal illness, the person who  
opts for suicide is not just choosing one of two alternative deaths, he is  
actually hastening his death.  
 
In the case of Shimshon, your thought that it was only grama is actually  a 
strong case, and here is an aspect that makes it even stronger:  his  "suicide" 
depended completely on a nes occurring, he had no way bederech hateva  to 
kill himself or to kill the Plishtim.  What he did might better be  compared to a 
person praying for death, which I think all would agree is  mutar.  If Hashem 
Himself steps in, then the person's death is literally an  Act of G-d -- 
which is what Shimshon's death was.
 
The reality is that physicians do actually often help people die but this  is 
never official.  It will always go on but should not be codified in  law 
because it makes it too official, almost as if the government is actually  
encouraging people to hasten their end. In Holland many people who are  "assisted" 
this way do not actually want to die and are not even close to  death, but have 
been persuaded by others.  There have even been cases  where patients 
specifically said they did not want to die but doctors signed at  the heirs' request 
that the patient "really" wanted to die.   Pain  killers and anti-depressants 
would be much better for them and would obviate  many "requests" to die -- but 
the extra months or years in nursing homes would  be very expensive for the 
govt and/or the heirs.
 
Anyway, bottom line, there is a huge difference between a person  saying,  
"Please release me from my suffering, take my soul now" to a  physician -- and 
saying that same thing to his Creator.




--Toby Katz
=============
Romney -- good values,  good family, good hair
Best hope against  Hillary



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