[Avodah] Mekor of TIDE, and a kashya

[Michael Makovi]

In The Living Hirschian Legacy (Feldheim), Rabbi Shelomo Danziger has
a wonderful essay, "Rav S. Hirsch - His Torah Im Derech Eretz [in Heb
char] Ideology"

Rabbi Danziger says something wonderful about TIDE: He raises several
kashyot, including TIDE's source. He notes that "yafe talmid torah im
derech eretz" in Avot, and other such sources, are inconclusive; Rav
Hirsch saw TIDE therein only because he already held by TIDE. The only
really strong proof is in Tanna debe Eliyahu that derech eretz kodemet
l'Torah. What is the real source?

I myself have often said that the Torah was not given to be our life;
we were given life, and the Torah tells us how to live it, but life came
first. Well, Rabbi Danziger says (I quote in full),

(note: [Heb] means that the word or phrase was originally in Hebrew
characters, and /.../ means it was in italics.)

"So, to the point. What is the mekor [Heb], the source, for TIDE
[Taf, vav, ayin, dalet, aleph]? Our simple, "lomdische" tirutz [Heb]
is: /There is no such source!/ And do you know why? Because the basis
of TIDE [Taf, vav, ayin, dalet, aleph] is /axiomatic, self-evident,/
and therefore /no source is necessary!/ The /first/, the most /primary/
fact of our existence is not that we are Jews, who have been given the
Torah. The first, the most primary fact of our existence is that we have
been given life, and have been placed in /this/ world, in /this/ century,
in /this/ living generation of fellow human beings who compromise the
society, culture and civilization of our allotted time on earth. This
is fact number one, chronologically and logically. Fact number two is
that that Hashem [Hei apostrophe] gave us the Torah to teach us how to
live in this world, in this century, in this living generation of fellow
human beings who comprise the society culture and civilization of our
allotted time on earth. These are the do's and don'ts of hte Torah, the
mitzvah aseh [Heb] and mitzvot lo ta'ase [Heb] and the hashkafot [Heb]
(the outlooks), which guide us in the use of the physical, social and
cultural raw material which comprises the worlds in which we live. First
there is life - hayim [Heb] - the physical, social and cultural raw
material - that is the great given! - And then there is the Torah - torat
hayim [Heb] - which shapes this given life, this physical, social and
cultural raw material, and tells us what to use of it and how, and what
to reject. In the process, the raw material of life becomes "Toraized"
(to coin a word) - it becomes Torah. But there must be a raw material
for the Torah to work on. The Torah is not the raw material. The raw
material is supplied by life around us, into which we were born."

"No man understood Rav Hirsch better than Rav Ya'akov Yekhiel [Heb;
Yekhiel = yud het yud aleph apostrophe] Weinberg, the Lithuanian gaon
[Heb], posek [Heb], rosh yeshiva [Heb] and academic scholar, the mechaber
[Heb] of shu"t sheridei eish [Heb]. Let me quote from an article he
wrote in the Hebrew anthology, haRav S. R. Hirsch Mishnato v'Shitato
[Heb]: haTorah hiy eifo l'da'at RSR"H ha-koach tatzar tzorah, v'ha-tzora
etzel eristo pirusha: m'hoto v'ein derech eretz ela ha-homer asher alav
po'elet haTorah [Heb]. "The Torah, then, is according to Rav Hirsch, the
force that gives /form/; and /form/, in the Aristotelian sense, means:
the essential nature of a thing (as distingusished from the matter in
which it is embodied). Derech eretz [Heb] is simply the matter on which
the Torah works.""

"You realize, of course, that in the process of answering the sixth kashya
[Heb] ("What is really the mekor [Heb], the source for TIDE [Taf, vav,
ayin, dalet, aleph]?") we have automatically answered also the third
kashya [Heb], which was that Torat hashem temimah [Heb] should not need to
be supplemented by some external culture. /There is no supplementation!/
There is only raw material, which the Torah does not supply, but which it
molds and transforms into Torah. Not supplementation, but "Toraization"
- of the given raw material!"

"If we still insist on some mekor [Heb], the closes would be the ma'amar
chazal [Heb]: kaf-vav dorot kadmah dalet-aleph et ha-torah [Heb]. The raw
material of derech eretz [Heb] precedes the Torah, chronologically and
logically. is the given raw material which the Torah must shape, model,
"Toraize" - transform into Torah into shechinah [Heb] - nearness."

So is TIDE [Taf, vav, ayin, dalet, aleph] still relevant today? [One
kashya was that TIDE applied only to 19th century Germany, not any
other derech eretz, and especially not the licentious American one.]
It's a silly question! One we understand the basic source and the basic
definition of TIDE [Taf, vav, ayin, dalet, aleph] it becomes clear
that as long as there is a world, a generation of men, a civilization -
and as long as tehre is a Torah, there is TIDE [Taf, vav, ayin, dalet,
aleph]. TIDE [Taf, vav, ayin, dalet, aleph] is as relevant today as it
has always been and always will be - ki'yemei ha-shamayim al ha-aretz
[Heb]! Because it is the plan of the Creator of the world, Who is the
notein ha-torah [Heb]. [Thus, TIDE applies to all darkei ha-aretz, not
just Rav Hirsch's own 19th century German one. And since Rav Hirsch set
it up as the eternal purpose and goal of Torah, TIDE is as permanent
and eternal as the Torah itself.]

----------

Beautiful words that are worth being brought for their own sake, IMHO.
But I have a kashya: Rav Hirsch on MANY MANY MANY occasions, emphasizes
that Torah is the ikkar and derech eretz is the tofeil (his explicit
words). But if Torah is the form and derech eretz the matter, is not
Torah the tofeil and derech eretz the ikkar? And kol va-chomer if derech
eretz kadmah et ha-torah!

This needs iyun. I am thinking that **perhaps**, in some way, derech
eretz IS the ikkar, and Torah the tofeil. Imagine if I asked you for
"blue" - something, anything blue. I just want blue. Well, you can't
give me disembodied blue, so you give me a blue shtender. Now, the
shtender can exist without blue, but blue cannot exist without the
shtender. Therefore, the shtender is the ikkar and the blue is tofei -
derech eretz is the ikkar and Torah is the tofeil.

But on the other hand, I really wanted was blue. I don't care whether
it is a shtender or a pen or a book. I just want blue. It is true that
the blue could not exist without the shtender, but nevertheless, the
shtender was incidental, and the blue was the principal. Thus the blue
is the ikkar and the shtender the tofeil, the Torah is ikkar and derech
eretz is tofeil.

In other words, there are two perspectives, and Rav Hirsch gave the
second. Since Torah is the goal, it is the ikkar, even though it depends
on derech eretz and came after derech eretz, and even though derech eretz
came first and does not require Torah for its own existence. The first
perspective is that whatever came first and is independent is the ikkar,
which would make derech eretz the ikkar - true, but not Rav Hirsch's
chosen perspective.

Moreover, sof ma'aseh b'machshava techila - true, derech eretz came first
and is the foundation, but Torah is the goal, even if it comes last and
requires the foundation of derech eretz.

Moreover, we can say that there is no curriculum for derech eretz -
whatever you have, whatever you grew up with, is enough for now. Torah
you need a certain amount - ein am ha'aretz chasid. Torah there is a
curriculum and an imperative for a certain dosage. But derech eretz is
not imperative to bulk up on. Therefore, Torah is the ikkar and derech
eretz the tofeil.

Now, I am not completely happy with these solutions. I am struggling to
fit "Torah = ikkar, DE = tofeil" with "Torah = form, DE = matter", and
I am not completely satisfied with my answers. Anyone else have an answer?

[Email #2. Originally posted under "RAYK and the end of chol" but this
subject line is more accurate, IMHO. -mi]

>>> Compare Torah im Derech Eretz to Rav Kook's view of learning chol,
>>> "sanctify the chol by
>>> infusing it with kodesh". Rav Kook and Rav Hirsch say the same thing
>>> on learning chol, but in different language.
>>> Mikha'el Makovi

>> First, TIDE is built around "Yaft E-lokim leYefet". The idea human
>> being is ennobled, raised above the animal -- both in Torah and in being
>> cultured. Far from RAYK's Zionism, I have no idea how TIDE is defined when
>> not living amongst a host population of Benei Yefes defining high culture.
>> R' Micha Berger

> We still have Yafetic culture today - take a glance at Israel. What we
> need to do is Judaize it. I think Rav Berkovits is a good example of
> taking TIDE and transplanting it to Israel.
> Mikha'el Makovi

I realize my response to you was ill-conceived. Let me withdraw and
replace it:

Rabbi Shelomo Danziger in The Living Hirschian Legacy points out that
there is no mekor for TIDE, because it is axiomatic: the Torah was
given with derech eretz as the matter and Torah as the form (in the
Aristotelian sense); the derech eretz is the starting point and Torah
was given to tell us how to live and mold and shape and craft this derech
eretz and "Toraize" it (Rabbi Danziger's own personal term). Therefore,
he says, TIDE has no source, and therefore, it is not dependent on any
particular derech eretz; Rav Hirsch's was 19th century German, but TIDE
is not a hora'at sha'ah, and it does not depend on any particular derech
eretz. TIDE means for Torah to master whatever derech eretz happens to
be in vogue, and thus TIDE was already in effect at matan torah and it
will still be in effect in a million years.

Therefore, anything about Yafet is irrelevant. True, Rav Hirsch brings
Yafet as the paradigmatic source of true noble derech eretz (see end
of parshat Noach, on Yafet dwelling in the tent of Shem; see also his
essays on Chanuka), but any derech eretz will do for TIDE; Yafet is simply
the optimal and the paradigm. TIDE applied to ancient Semitic/Oriental
culture as much as to Persian culture as to Greco-Roman culture as to
Arabic culture, etc.

I still stand by Rabbi Berkovits being TIDE for Israel, however. Much
of what he says overlaps with Rav Kook's vision for how modern society
and Torah will work together in Israel.

Mikha'el Makovi