[Avodah] Sukkah GT 20 amot high

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, September 6, 2006 3:51 pm, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
: R' Joel Rich asked about a sukkah higher than 20 amos:
:> (1) Rabah - Lo shalta bei eyna
:> (2) Rav Zeira - One is not sitting in the tzel of the Sukkah
:> (3) Rava - LT  20 is a temporary dwelling
:> Any insights on how the 20 amot was arrived at. Are 1 and 3
:> inherent in the briah or subject to change (or are they like
:> treifot-fixed in time). Is 2 geometrically defensible?  Is all
:> this really descriptive rather than prescriptive?

: First, I think it is very noteworthy that the same 20 amos limit
: applies to Chanuka lights, and for the same reason as #1 above.

That's what I noted in my first post. But now I'm not as sure, particularly
because:
: Geometrically defensible? No way. Sitting in the sukkah's shade is
: dependent on the angle at which the sun is shining, combined with
: both the height of the s'chach and also its horizontal edges.

Nor is Rava's position easily explicable. This idea came to me while walking
to lunch, passing under scaffolding that was well higher than 30 ft. What
makes tall structures inherently more qavu'im?

I would like to suggest that all three actually hold the problem is "lo shalta
bei eina". And therefore, contrary to my earlier post, our pesaq WRT Chanukah
doesn't prove we hold like Raba -- although Raba is still the closest
parallel, it's not muchrach.

Raba opens the discussion by saying that the problem is LSBE, and therefore
there is no "lema'an yeid'u doroseikhem".

Then R' Zeira is choleiq, and proves a requirement to sit in tzeil. But
perhaps he isn't disagreeing about LSBE, but rather the significance of RSBE.
Because one doesn't see the sekhakh, the tzeil is disconnected from the
sekhakh. If the connection is psychological (need I revive the "ta'am and
taste" thread?) rather than physical, geometry is irrelevant.

After the shaqla vetarya between RZ and Abayei, Rava offers his answer. But
again, perhaps it's not "arai" because LSBE, and not because of a kelal about
people not building tall temporary dwellings.

-mi
http://www.aishdas.org/asp